I'm not sure I agree on the narcissism part, but that's maybe because of the types of books I read. But I definitely, 200% agree on the human connection part. Bores me to tears when authors spend paragraphs describing shit. Just let me read what's happening for heaven's sakes. Also, I love the way you did this, with the background image and voice over.
Thanks. Narcissus was entranced by his reflection in the water. That’s what I was referring to. I think all humans are, to some degree, narcissistic, and this is the quality that underpins a portion of all human connection.
Absolutely, all humans are narcissistic to some degree. Interesting thought, that it underpins human connection. When people look for commonalities, maybe that's just a way of saying how are you like me.
I agree, with Roman here, though I am not always successful in pulling it off. As with my poetry, I know I am also this way with love. I always tend to love what I can see myself in. Unfortunately, I tend to see a bit of myself in everything. Luckily, for my wife, I am faithful. I am not always quite as faithful to myself. But I try, I try my damnedest to be.
It's kind of funny, the times I have ever felt the most connection and love with another, they are times when I was at my most self-centered. And aware of it. I think people just struggle with acknowledging this need for a whole-hearted love of self. I honestly feel if you can't fully love yourself, you will never be able to fully love anyone else.
However, I also think this love of self will have its legs cut off on a daily basis. That is how it is supposed to be. The glory of life is that you have to go look for it again. I feel this is the core of identity and growth. The search. In that search you will find that love briefly. That brief moment of reflection will propel you onward to the next moment.
I think this is why I go all blabber-mouth on Roman all the time. I think he is the most narcissistic person I've ever met, other than myself. And I love that about him.
It sounds like what you're talking about is self awareness. The clinical definition of narcissism is lack of ability to empathize with anyone else and lack of ability to see any perspective but one's own. Can't speak for you because I don't know you well enough, but I would say Roman is overly the top when it comes to self awareness, but not narcissistic by the clinical definition. Empathy by the bucketful.
I also don't agree that if you can't love yourself you can't fully love someone else. I hear a lot of people say that. But there are swaths of people with childhood trauma, something like 60% of the population, and probably will never fully love themselves but some of them are the most loving people I've ever known. Often it's the very fact that they did not get the love and care they wanted so badly, and should have had but didn't, that makes them so willing to give others the love and acceptance they wanted and didn't get.
Kahlil Gibran said "I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet, strange, I am ungrateful to those teachers." -- that makes a lot of sense to me. Follows that we can learn to be loving from those who were not.
I am not entirely sold yet on what love entails. I know I am still fumbling with it. I am also not entirely sold on the clinical definition of narcissism, there being an entire lack of empathy. The mythology has Narcissus falling in love with himself in a pool of water, a mirror. But I take that as more a metaphor for any mirror. Perhaps other people are our mirrors. We see ourselves in them and fall in love with those parts of them, creating empathy. We understand and empathize with those parts of another person, because they resonate, and we have felt or experienced those things. We struggle more with those that we do not see ourselves in, creating distance. I think self awareness of this struggle is an important thing. After all, Narcissus lost himself in only focusing on his own likeness, falling in love with something he could never experience or touch, ultimately ending in suicide. I agree and feel, from what I have read and come to know of Roman, he has this self awareness. I wasn't saying that he lacked empathy, by any means. But I do, like him (I think), feel that perhaps some empathy is derived from narcissism.
I struggle with defining the other part, how do I love that which is different, from this mirror I am looking at, from myself? Do I change a part of myself to align with what I see inside someone else? Do I just let it be, do I flee from it, or do I choose to seek and explore that unknown? Do I try to change it? Do I try to love it as is? I have a real trouble with this one: Do I just simply weed it out? The tragedy of Narcissus is that he became entranced with only himself, to the exclusion of all else. I don't believe I am as far gone as that. I see the beauty and ugliness of myself in others. I also see things I just simply do not understand, but would like to. I still feel it is a worthwhile endeavor to try for. One I hope I will continue to follow until the end of my days.
I am still struggling with the idea of fully loving oneself and fully loving others. Using "fully" here was a mistake I know. There is so much weight and finality to it. For me, right now, I simply see it more as a goal to move toward: loving oneself and others to the best of your ability. Picking up the little bits and pieces of love that you collect up as they come, over the course of your life. I think having that goal, if taken up in earnest, is all that really matters.
I think it depends on how the book is packaged. Sometimes, readers are looking for entertainment and escapism. Like the fantasy series, or sci-fi. It's possible they'll project themselves onto the protagonist, but they may hope for distance with a "show me what you've got" attitude, then apply the lessons to themselves when they take a break. Is that what you mean? That the conflict, aspirations, and idiosynchacies are all things the reader is looking to identify with? I'm thinking "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy," "Star Wars," superheros. Maybe they do look for relatable personalities, even in animals and robots.
I think it’s human nature to seek out reflections of self to identify with. What that is can be many things. Maybe it’s a parental struggle or a conflict with a sibling or a feeling that the world is out to get you because of your skin color. Whatever, the identification, we desire to know we are not alone, a knowledge we can satisfy through literature.
Just an offhand memory, surfaced but I wrote a poem awhile back about empathy. I stole liberally from Phillip K. Dick, his Empathy Box from Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. Given Roman's interest in some of Kurt Vonnegut's science fiction, I really think he at least will enjoy. It was a small attempt at spinning that Empathy Box in a new light. It's a bit dark, but some of my work is. Hope you enjoy.
I'm not sure I agree on the narcissism part, but that's maybe because of the types of books I read. But I definitely, 200% agree on the human connection part. Bores me to tears when authors spend paragraphs describing shit. Just let me read what's happening for heaven's sakes. Also, I love the way you did this, with the background image and voice over.
Thanks. Narcissus was entranced by his reflection in the water. That’s what I was referring to. I think all humans are, to some degree, narcissistic, and this is the quality that underpins a portion of all human connection.
Absolutely, all humans are narcissistic to some degree. Interesting thought, that it underpins human connection. When people look for commonalities, maybe that's just a way of saying how are you like me.
Linda,
I agree, with Roman here, though I am not always successful in pulling it off. As with my poetry, I know I am also this way with love. I always tend to love what I can see myself in. Unfortunately, I tend to see a bit of myself in everything. Luckily, for my wife, I am faithful. I am not always quite as faithful to myself. But I try, I try my damnedest to be.
It's kind of funny, the times I have ever felt the most connection and love with another, they are times when I was at my most self-centered. And aware of it. I think people just struggle with acknowledging this need for a whole-hearted love of self. I honestly feel if you can't fully love yourself, you will never be able to fully love anyone else.
However, I also think this love of self will have its legs cut off on a daily basis. That is how it is supposed to be. The glory of life is that you have to go look for it again. I feel this is the core of identity and growth. The search. In that search you will find that love briefly. That brief moment of reflection will propel you onward to the next moment.
I think this is why I go all blabber-mouth on Roman all the time. I think he is the most narcissistic person I've ever met, other than myself. And I love that about him.
Keep looking in your mirror dude. Lol.
It sounds like what you're talking about is self awareness. The clinical definition of narcissism is lack of ability to empathize with anyone else and lack of ability to see any perspective but one's own. Can't speak for you because I don't know you well enough, but I would say Roman is overly the top when it comes to self awareness, but not narcissistic by the clinical definition. Empathy by the bucketful.
I also don't agree that if you can't love yourself you can't fully love someone else. I hear a lot of people say that. But there are swaths of people with childhood trauma, something like 60% of the population, and probably will never fully love themselves but some of them are the most loving people I've ever known. Often it's the very fact that they did not get the love and care they wanted so badly, and should have had but didn't, that makes them so willing to give others the love and acceptance they wanted and didn't get.
Kahlil Gibran said "I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet, strange, I am ungrateful to those teachers." -- that makes a lot of sense to me. Follows that we can learn to be loving from those who were not.
I am not entirely sold yet on what love entails. I know I am still fumbling with it. I am also not entirely sold on the clinical definition of narcissism, there being an entire lack of empathy. The mythology has Narcissus falling in love with himself in a pool of water, a mirror. But I take that as more a metaphor for any mirror. Perhaps other people are our mirrors. We see ourselves in them and fall in love with those parts of them, creating empathy. We understand and empathize with those parts of another person, because they resonate, and we have felt or experienced those things. We struggle more with those that we do not see ourselves in, creating distance. I think self awareness of this struggle is an important thing. After all, Narcissus lost himself in only focusing on his own likeness, falling in love with something he could never experience or touch, ultimately ending in suicide. I agree and feel, from what I have read and come to know of Roman, he has this self awareness. I wasn't saying that he lacked empathy, by any means. But I do, like him (I think), feel that perhaps some empathy is derived from narcissism.
I struggle with defining the other part, how do I love that which is different, from this mirror I am looking at, from myself? Do I change a part of myself to align with what I see inside someone else? Do I just let it be, do I flee from it, or do I choose to seek and explore that unknown? Do I try to change it? Do I try to love it as is? I have a real trouble with this one: Do I just simply weed it out? The tragedy of Narcissus is that he became entranced with only himself, to the exclusion of all else. I don't believe I am as far gone as that. I see the beauty and ugliness of myself in others. I also see things I just simply do not understand, but would like to. I still feel it is a worthwhile endeavor to try for. One I hope I will continue to follow until the end of my days.
I am still struggling with the idea of fully loving oneself and fully loving others. Using "fully" here was a mistake I know. There is so much weight and finality to it. For me, right now, I simply see it more as a goal to move toward: loving oneself and others to the best of your ability. Picking up the little bits and pieces of love that you collect up as they come, over the course of your life. I think having that goal, if taken up in earnest, is all that really matters.
I think it depends on how the book is packaged. Sometimes, readers are looking for entertainment and escapism. Like the fantasy series, or sci-fi. It's possible they'll project themselves onto the protagonist, but they may hope for distance with a "show me what you've got" attitude, then apply the lessons to themselves when they take a break. Is that what you mean? That the conflict, aspirations, and idiosynchacies are all things the reader is looking to identify with? I'm thinking "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy," "Star Wars," superheros. Maybe they do look for relatable personalities, even in animals and robots.
I think it’s human nature to seek out reflections of self to identify with. What that is can be many things. Maybe it’s a parental struggle or a conflict with a sibling or a feeling that the world is out to get you because of your skin color. Whatever, the identification, we desire to know we are not alone, a knowledge we can satisfy through literature.
You're right. Insightful answer - thanks!
Just an offhand memory, surfaced but I wrote a poem awhile back about empathy. I stole liberally from Phillip K. Dick, his Empathy Box from Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. Given Roman's interest in some of Kurt Vonnegut's science fiction, I really think he at least will enjoy. It was a small attempt at spinning that Empathy Box in a new light. It's a bit dark, but some of my work is. Hope you enjoy.
The Empathy Box
Hands in the box, Bygonite!
Box or we must kill you outright.
Inside find a hive thinking,
Fingers touch heartbeats seeking,
Nails soon bit by hungry Why.
We must know you still can cry.
Hands in the box, Bygonite!
Box or we must kill you outright.
MaggotsX @ 10.08.2016